you’re watching the legal breakdown so Glenn there is an ongoing investigation in Fulton County Georgia and that’s regarding Trump’s call with Georgia Secretary of State Brad raffensberger demanding that he fined 11 780 votes that didn’t exist now a special grand jury was convened and that grand jury has now completed its report so first why was a special grand jury convened and second what comes next now that that report’s complete yeah um the good news is this feels like progress so Georgia has a somewhat unusual dual grand jury system usually jurisdictions just have one grand jury that grand jury issues subpoenas here’s testimony and votes out indictments in Georgia uh the the regular grand jury cannot compel witnesses to testify the regular grand jury doesn’t have subpoena power so you have to ask the court to convene a special grand jury to exercise The subpoena power to force or compel reluctant witnesses to testify and boy did district attorney fonnie Willis have her hands full with lots of reluctant Witnesses Donald Trump’s you know lackeys and lap dogs who didn’t want to testify so that’s why she had to seek to have a judge in panel the special grand jury and now as you say that grand jury has completed its work it’s issued a report and it’s been resolved and now they move on to next steps so when are we going to find out who uh the Fulton County D.A was trying to get to compel to testify so there is an open question right now about whether the special Grand jury’s report will become will become public and I’ll talk about that in a second but I think it’s really interesting the district attorney Willis has been sort of persistently sawing the Justice wood and defeating Donald Trump loyalist one after another after another and this is why she needed the special grand jury because she subpoenaed Mike Flynn who desperately didn’t want to have to testify before a Georgia State grand jury about the crimes of Donald Trump so of course he went to court he tried to avoid testifying and boy fawnee Willis just beat the pants off him he appeared and he testified Rudy Giuliani same thing he didn’t want to have to testify about Donald Trump’s crimes went to court fawnee Willis beat him and he appeared and testified and Lindsey Graham Senator Lindsey Graham so desperately didn’t want to have to testify before the Georgia state grand jury about Donald Trump’s crimes that he fought it all the way up to the Supreme Court and district attorney Willis beat him and he had to appear before the grand jury and testify so now what happens is um this is all secret by law so the the special Grand Jury has issued a report Bonnie Willis has it and there’s a court hearing in Georgia the case is being presided over or I should say the grand jury matter is being presided over by judge McBurney a Georgia State judge and on January 24th he’s going to hear arguments on whether the grand jury’s report should become public or should remain secret while phony Willis moves on to the next phase of her investigation here’s what the next phase looks like she will take the work of the special grand jury and she will present it to the regular grand jury in Georgia that is the grand jury empowered to indict people and I have to believe Brian if if we read the tea leaves um I suspect the special grand jury found evidence of crime how could they not given that notorious phone call look just find me eleven thousand seven hundred and eighty votes and corruptly declare me the winner let me add that the other participant in that call Secretary of State Brad raffensberger from Georgia he testified before the special grand jury about that phone call so if the special Grand Jury has recommended in its report that criminal charges should be brought against one or more people I have to believe funny Willis will go into the regular grand jury will present that report we’ll summarize the evidence that was developed before the special grand jury and she will ask the regular Georgia grand jury to vote out indictments now we know that that special Grand Jerry’s report isn’t public but what about the regular grand jury that’s been convened are we gonna are we gonna be able to follow along with that publicly it will all be done behind closed doors in secret the only thing we will know is when and if an indictment has been issued and unsealed that is typically at the moment an arrest is made or a negotiated turn-in is agreed to uh between the prosecutors and the the defense attorneys representing the target indeed if the target ends up being Donald Trump so the answer is no unfortunately we’re going to be kept in the dark unless and until an indictment issues is that normal like are all grand jury cases at least in the state of Georgia behind closed doors isn’t this something that usually we’re able to follow along with at least in other states almost all grand juries are secret by law because you know and there are really some important policy considerations behind that if we prosecutors are in the grand jury investigating somebody for potential crime and it turns out we don’t have enough evidence to indict the person or maybe we got it wrong the person didn’t commit a crime the last thing you want to do is is to have that information out in the Public Square because you know the person who might be wrongfully accused um can never get his or her reputation back we also do a Brian to protect the witnesses the witnesses that we call before the grand jury because we want them to feel comfortable that they can fully testify about the crimes of others without their names prematurely being thrown into the Public Square so people can I you know tamper with them like we learned team Trump tampered with Cassidy Hutchinson now what would you mentioned the timeline is for the grand jury trial in Fulton County because wouldn’t it stand to reason that you know it’s pretty straightforward that both sides present they cross-examine and the jury deliberates and then we hear a verdict yeah so here’s the good news in the grand jury now that fawny Willis is moving back to the regular grand jury I think the I think the time frame can actually be fairly short and condensed here’s why all of the witnesses all of the evidence was presented to the special grand jury and they issued a report summarizing it all and making their recommendation now funny Willis doesn’t have to present all that evidence Anew to the regular grand jury she simply has to present the report perhaps summarize a little bit of the information that was developed by the special grand jury and asked that grand jury to return indictments importantly the only people who are allowed inside a grand jury are the prosecutor the grand jurors and a grand jury court reporter taking down verbatim every word that is said in the grand jury there is no judge there’s no defense attorney there’s never a defendant in fact Brian when I would go into the grand jury day after day when I was a federal prosecutor in D.C I wasn’t even permitted to take in one of my FBI agents my homicide detectives it is a very strict and closely held proceeding so there’s no judge no cross-examination and I think fawnee Willis can move toward an indictment literally in the matter of the next couple of weeks copy that now here’s the fun part who chooses the punishment and and what will the range of that sentencing be and would it surprise you if Trump did get indicted that his sentence would differ from what we would normally expect uh for yeah so we’ve got a few steps a few steps between the time an indictment is issued and the time we are a judge is wrestling with the question of what’s the appropriate sentence the appropriate punishment for Donald Trump’s crimes after the indictment issues the case then moves into the trial court trial date will be set the trial will be held and in the event of a conviction it will be the judge who decides what is the appropriate punishment is it for example prison time is it home confinement in lieu of prison time which let me tell you as a former career prosecutor I was never a fan of Home confinement because that feels like somebody who’s been convicted by a jury of their peers of committing felony crimes being sentenced to basically you know uh uh binge watch Netflix and get Dash delivered that never did feel like much of a punishment or a sanction to me yeah I feel like I’m on home confinement right now I feel like I’ve been on on home confinement for the last few years here um okay so on the issue of you know what I think what I think is swirling around here is this issue of lenient sentencing and with that said we just did see something like that with Alan weisselberg he’s the the CFO of the Trump org um he was just sentenced to a paltry five months in prison in the Trump organization fraud case can I get your reaction to that my reaction is Alan weisselberg remains on team Trump he remains in the fold he may have testified as a witness a cooperating witness who was cooperating with the state court prosecutors but by all accounts he never did give up Donald Trump in fact in his trial testimony it seems like he protected Donald Trump and the fact is Brian he pleaded guilty to 15 charges including the lead count a 15-year long criminal scheme to defraud in the first degree a massive tax fraud scheme and Alan weisselberg and the Trump organization and I maintain Donald Trump defrauded the taxpayers of the city of New York the taxpayers of the state of New York and of necessity all of us the federal taxpayers why do I say that well rarely does a a bandit a federal tax feet lie on their state taxes but fully report all their income on their federal taxes come on right and here is what’s so troubling Not only was it a paltry as you put it five months now it’s going to be in Rikers so you know five minutes in Rikers in New York is no fun but he will also have his sentence likely reduced to about 100 days assuming he gets good time credit and I don’t imagine he’s going to be running around Rikers you know shanking people like Alan weisselberg’s Jam yeah um but you know that that really is an extraordinarily lenient sentence for the crimes he pleaded guilty to but but here is really the worst thing in my view um these federal tax crimes were committed no two ways about it but they have gone entirely unprosecuted Alan weisselberg has never been charged with the federal tax crime by the Department of Justice nor has the Trump organization and obviously nor has Donald Trump I don’t understand how that can be why Donald Trump has all of these fall guys around him like Alan weisselberg and remember Michael Cohen his former lawyer who went to prison for among other things being in a campaign Finance conspiracy to pay off Playmates and porn stars at the direction of and for the benefit of Donald Trump he went to prison Donald Trump has never been held accountable not one minute for his federal crimes I have no explanation for why that is other than it feels like a persistent failure of the Department of Justice if the federal government was to hold Alan weisselberg accountable does it have to emanate from the doj or can a U.S attorney’s Office anywhere in the country like in in the southern district of New York for example can they uh move to hold him accountable yeah so the U.S attorney’s offices around the country including the ones in New York are the field offices of the Department of Justice so when we use the term Department of Justice we are including in that all 93 United States attorney’s offices around the country um listen if any U.S attorney’s Office was going to go against a former president believe me the decisions would be made out of what we call Maine Justice the Department of Justice in Washington D.C so I guess at this point uh if we were looking for an explanation it would probably be looking toward Merrick Garland as to why or why not we’re not seeing any action against Alan weisselberg correct it is that’s going to be a decision for the leadership of the Department of Justice the Attorney General Merrick Garland the deputy attorney general Lisa Monaco let me highlight just one thing that the New York State judge judge Marshawn said at Alan weisselberg’s sentencing he said you know what I’m really upset by one thing you did in particular and the judge highlighted this he said you cut your wife a bogus check from the Trump Organization for six thousand dollars so she could uh obtain Social Security benefits Brian that’s a federal crime that may also violate the state laws of New York but that’s a federal crime and it is a mystery to me why the federal authorities have given not only Alan weisselberg but Donald Trump a pass on every single federal crime that we have virtually been beaten over the head with over the past several years we’ve seen not one minute of accountability for Trump and I really hope that changes yeah as do I and hopefully you know as these special counsel investigations continue to Bear Down on him we’ll see some movement and especially in Fulton County and we’ll keep an eye on that as as we get more updates on that one so for anybody watching uh if you want to check out more legal news make sure to follow both of our channels links are right here on the screen I’m Brian Taylor Cohen and I’m Glenn kirschner this is the legal breakdown
